Comments on: Divorcing Italy

By: Keith

Keith — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 18:16:13 +0000

Just to offer a different view – my wife and I (both natural born USA citizens) lived in Pavia for 4 years and had a wonderful experience. The decision to return to the US was tough. We had LOTS of local Italian friends and almost felt like rock stars being in a country that seems to love American people (although not our government). Some of what you say is very true: my wife had difficulty practicing her profession (physical therapy) and settled for the same career choices that you list. I still miss living in Italy!

By: Barbara

Barbara — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 14:48:47 +0000

Hi Deidre, thank you for posting this. You are speaking from my heart. I have never felt particularly integrated in Italy and professionally I never really got my feet on the ground either, still I stayed on because of my husband’s job. But since this summer when I got back to Milan from my summer holidays in Florida I am just not able to life here anymore. I am fed up with having to excuse for being who I am and for thinking what I think. I don’t want my two girls to grow up seeing only the restrictive female role models that Italy offers and I can’t stand the feeling anymore of living in a place that is 50 years behind the rest of Europe and the US. So me too I decided to divorce Italy and I am putting all my efforts and energy into leaving the country. I wish you all the best.

By: Kelly Eickhoff

Kelly Eickhoff — Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:41:37 +0000

Hi Deirdre, I have to say your ‘divorce’ has reinforced the decision Sergio and I took a long time ago, and that was that he would come to Australia, not that I would go to Italy. Although he loves his country, he sees the flaws, sees it stagnating, sees how many of his friends have no sure hope of getting employment in the field they desire. As a clear foreigner with a degree in Social Work and International Studies I would not get serious employment in Italy, and he would have a far better chance of getting any kind of work in Australia with far less discrimination as we are a much more multicultural country. It isn’t unusual to speak a language other than English here! As beautiful Italy it can be, Australia has better opportunities and in many respects life is more laid back and simple. Best of luck with everything, especially with the long distance relationship with Enrico. You’re welcome to come say g’day any time!

By: Deirdre Straughan

Deirdre Straughan — Tue, 03 Feb 2009 01:15:15 +0000

Thanks, everybody, for sharing your thoughts.

Lisa: Menopause is probably a factor for me right now. As I recently read, “menopause is like adolescence, without the fun parts.” The shutdown of my mothering hormones it coincides with or was driven by our suddenly empty nest; maybe those hormones were what enabled me to deal with a stifling situation for so long, because it was the best thing for my family at the time. But now – oh, freedom!

Rana: Though I’m enjoying Colorado right now, I’m not wedded to the US or any particular part of it, in fact I hope very much to have opportunities to live elsewhere. Australia and/or New Zealand have always interested me, and I could easily picture myself living in India again. There’s a lot of world out there, and as long as I have an interesting job to do, I’m flexible about where it is.

The new hope in American politics, and contrasting lack thereof in Italian politics, may be a factor, now that you mention it. What I felt about that was very well described by another ex-expat-in-Italy blogger: http://theverges.blogspot.com/2008/11/days-of-hope-and-glory.html

By: Jake

Jake — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 20:07:12 +0000

Wow. I was somewhat shocked to read about your anger towards Italy. I have often thought about retiring in Italy and only to the very deep south. I thought that the southern weather, the laid back lifestyle and not working would make this area an ideal retirement spot, but your column leaves me wondering if Italy is such a good place after all.

By: Rana

Rana — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 13:50:36 +0000

Very interesting, and touching. Is it only Italy that you are ruling out, or is it “anywhere except the USA”? It seems that the problems you refer to are largely Italian, but various bits (weather etc) are shared by much of Europe and other bits (bureaucracy etc) are shared by much of Asia.

Some of the problems you mention in Italy are a reflection of the current PM, I wonder if that affected your decision, and perhaps the political climate will change soon. As there is today arguably a “new hope” in US politics, perhaps there will be an Italian revolution in new technology and new attitudes. Though in either continent, I guess there is about 50% of the population who are intrinsicaly opposed to your worldview.

Just musing.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 05:26:03 +0000

D: Still unsettled because of sadness and what you see as the end of your relationship with a place that still holds people and things you love.

Unlike you, I never left. The kids were still at home. But sense of place has always been important to me so I’ve been mulling over whatever it was that made me feel less trapped and more content and allowed me to be with my husband and kids without losing my mind.

My job, an avenue closed to you in Italy, has provided bouts of satisfaction and daily purposefulness along with the stress. I actively pursued that getting a Masters degree at one point when the kids were small. After reading about your options, it probably helped more than I realized.

My experience with cancer and Hubbie’s sojourns in intensive care unit? (You know those scary times when you vow to embrace your situation whatever it is…if only you survive the crisis.) I’ve never been good at “resolutions” so that’s probably not a factor. And I hope that nothing like that ever calls you back there.

Maybe it’s surviving the raging hormonal storms of my forties and coming out the other end of the menopausal tunnel. (Oh, boy! Truly a shriveled dried up crone, but a placid one.) Lovely thought! But I am, strangely, less volatile….. Oh, Great! I got old. I was supposed to rage against the dying of the light or something like that…. Hold fast to your dreams…and instead I fell asleep at the wheel.

Did I sell out? Give up? Abandon my dreams and my “self?” Or did I just “make the best of a bad situation?”

This village is home for my kids, but like Ross, I doubt if they’ll ever return to live in the area. (Did I/we convey that to them? Analytical outsiders that we are.)

And will I be sad when I leave as I think we inevitably will….thirty years later than I would have liked…..when we retire and monkeys fly?

Or have I been steeling myself against the negative and disciplining my thoughts all these years? Something that I’ll do then? If I did that, it was unconcious!

Your situation is in some ways easier (no kids at home) and in others so much more complicated (distance, borders and culture.) Once again, I wish you luck …and peace.

By: Lisa

Lisa — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 01:04:48 +0000

Deirdre: I’m originally from Connecticut and have been following your site since the spring when when I was researching a trip that my husband and I took to northern Italy last summer. For a frustrated world traveler many of your topics appeal and your narration is fascinating.
I can relate to a lot of it personally, the good and the BAD. That’s what prompted me to write today. Your frustration and anger are palpable.
I have a new empty nest,a sister-in-law whose family hails from Lahore, but who met my brother in India-so a long time interest in Indian culture and the Himalayas, some tech knowledge, and I’ve even been to East Rock. (Or is it West Rock? Anyway, I’ve been there. Once with my Mom and once on a date…)
As a woman in my late fifties I understand the job frustration all too well. I hated what we used to call the “good ol boy” network. I left business decades ago and (happily) teach science helping kids (boys AND GIRLS) to soar. (Or at least I like to think they soar. Some do. And most of them at least “land on their feet.”) Teaching isn’t for everyone, but I’m also a life long learner, so it’s good for me.(I also take perverse delight in teaching skills that equip kids for the “real” world. Many of my teaching colleagues have never been out of school. First as students, then as “educators,” they’ve been in a classroom environment their entire lives.)
I also have a supportive and pragmatic middle aged husband (not a bad thing to be in these days of global economic turmoil) but it has landed me in places where I have ABSOLUTELY NOT WANTED TO BE. Frustrated. Stuck. Sometimes broke. Sometimes with small kids. I didn’t always view him as supportive and pragmatic. It was more “stubborn” and “selfish.” For a while I viewed him as a Neanderthal.
I’ve adjusted, I guess, because I no longer silently (or otherwise) scream. And I’m happy, but I’ve found pursuits that make me happy. (Gardening, nature walks, reading, archaeological digs during summer breaks, blogs, scotch, girl’s nights out, household traditions and household gods.)
We generally travel a minimum of two hours to spend time with real friends. In the course of raising kids we connected with others in our rural village, but are usually by ourselves. (NO FAMILY CLOSE BY EITHER.) Generally speaking, our connections are either through the wives or through the husbands and many times it lasted only as long as the kids were in scouting or Sunday school or whatever. Nearby simpatico “couples” friendships have been fleeting due to divorce, relocation etc. I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times in the past twenty-four years that we’ve been included in someone’s family gathering. Those kindnesses are also a thing of the past for the same reasons. “Getting away” to visit those real friends got complicated once the kids (who were inconveniently five years apart in age) got involved in sports and part time jobs. Now we’re able to go again and as luck would have it, those friends bought lake cottages near one my husband inherited, so I can imagine a retirement “compound” of sorts a few years down the road. (Maybe a few decades with the economy the way it is…)
Finally, for the last eight years, this country has not been one that you’d exactly want to live in…I wish that I had a dime for every time I’ve silently screamed, “Not in my name!”) (Think Paul Simon’s American Tune)
So, what’s the answer? What’s important in the end? Don’t know. But I hope you find it…that place called home….because it has to somewhere, I think…even for a third culture kid. Good luck!
I have to go now to serve my husband some beef stew-ragu over polenta (Grandma was from Liguria, Grandpa from Piedmont) and keep him company while he watches the end of the Superbowl without a boy around for the first time in years and years. Lord, I hate football. Lisa
PS. Your site was really helpful in understanding Italian life. I was able to “dazzle” my husband with all kinds of information about daily Italian life as we traveled the north including the bit you posted about Italian window shutter/blinds whatever you call them. On the way to Varenna the train stopped in Lecco and I told him about reading blog written by a “girl who lived in Lecco.” He looked at me increduously and asked “You blog?” Men are from….

By: kataroma

kataroma — Sun, 01 Feb 2009 21:53:44 +0000

Ciao Deirdre

I’m very sorry to hear this and sorry that you feel like this. I really admire the way you are able to summarise Italy’s ills in such a succinct and easily understandable way. I feel exactly the same (as does my husband, thank God!) and we don’t plan to stick around too long.

It’s really sad to see so much potential squandered here. I feel like with the effort my husband puts into his B&Bs he would be quite the successful businessman anywhere else – here he’s mired down in ridiculous red tape, taxes and stress.

good luck, Deirdre!